from the Teacher/Student/Parent Department of the Spring 2005 issue
Multimedia supplements
to the article
What special qualities do parents of children who succeed at
the piano share?
Part Three
Interview by Bruce Berr
with the parents of Daniel & Doug - Mr. and Ms. K
and the parents of Jake, Evan, and David - Mr. and Ms. S
Consult the print magazine
for context
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Music clips
Text
of additional parts of the interview with the K family
Text of additional
parts of the interview with the S family
Additional
comments from others
Audio clips from the interview: The K family
|
Learning
responsibility |
Music
as part of life |
Motivation
& encouragement |
Punctuality
& diligence |
|
Reliability
& trust |
|||
As you can hear, the K family's house is under one of the flight paths near Ohare International Airport.
Please forgive the occasional extra sound.
Click here if you are unable to play mp3 files on your computer
Audio clips from the interview: The S family
|
Parental
involvement in home practice |
Practicing
as a priority & routine |
Prioritizing
piano over other instruments |
Helping
children through the low points |
|
Punctuality
& consistent attendance |
Helping
children continue with lessons |
||
Music: The children from both families playing
|
Daniel K
& teacher duet, |
Doug
K & teacher
duet, |
|
David S
& teacher duet, |
Evan
S & teacher
duet, |
Jake
S, |
More of the interview with the K family
Helping with time management - setting limits
BB: The boys are consistently well prepared for lessons. How have you helped them with time management?
Mr. K: We're firm believers that they have to plan their day.
We have certain rules around the house:
No more than 30 minutes of TV and 30 minutes of computer time
a day.
No less than 30 minutes of reading and 30 minutes of piano practice
each day.
We don't have a set schedule each day when they practice piano, but they know it has to be fit in sometime before their bedtime. It's up to them to figure out how they're going to manage their day overall.
The other limits we place are on sports - they get to participate in one sport only each season. Also, they play only in local leagues-not anything that travels-because that can really chew up your life.
BB: How did they learn to manage their own time?
Ms. K: At first, it was constant daily reminders, and pointing out where it was in the day, and what still remained to be done. Doug has it down pat now. Daniel, being three years younger, is still working on this; we're sure he'll be able to manage his own time soon, but meanwhile, we help out a little more.
Mr. K: What we're trying to teach them both is rather simple: for every behavior, there is a consequence. Here's what we expect you to do; if you don't do it, there's a consequence. For piano, that means if you don't do 30 minutes today, then tomorrow you'll do an hour; they try to avoid falling behind like that. I think this works with them, and with people in general.
Ms. K: But we're not tyrants. If we feel they're overwhelmed at school, then we know we need to back off. Once or twice this year, Doug was up until 10:30 PM doing his homework. Of course I didn't ask him to do piano when I knew he was being diligent and hadn't been wasting any time.
BB: So they not only learn how to manage their time during normal periods, but they also learn when it's appropriate to make exceptions.
Mr. K: Yes. It's about learning to make choices. I always felt the greatest thing my parents did for me was to let me make decisions at an early age, and they held me responsible for those decisions.
_________
Accountability , and being overscheduled
BB: In the two years that you've been in my studio, the lessons that you've missed can be counted on one hand: the guys have been sick, your school's vacation schedule was not the same as my studio's, and once, unfortunately, your car burned to a crisp on the day of a lesson! (Below, see the picture - THIS is what it takes for the K family for miss a lesson! Click to hear the phone message that was left on my voice mail that day).
Ms. K: I don't view any other
reasons as valid. I wouldn't have called in sick to work without
a good reason.
Mr. K: Absolutely. I think it comes down to accountability. We try to teach the boys that if you sign up for something, you have responsibility to everyone else who's involved to show up, and to be an active part of it. They know it's important not to waste people's time, so if they sign up for something, they're there. For this reason, we try not to oversubscribe our kids.
Ms. K: That's very important, taking on too many things. Even so, near the end of the school year, there was a lot going on; I think they felt overwhelmed by all the things they needed to fit into their schedule. So I can't even imagine what it must be like for children who have even more on their plate.
BB: You have proactively made what is on their plate manageable, and not allowed it to grow unchecked.
Mr. K: We really try. These are kids! They also need their downtime-they need time to just go out and play sometimes.
Ms. K: And we also have realistic expectations of them. They have a love of sports, but we don't expect them to get a college scholarship in that area, so we want them to do it for the love of doing it, to learn, and to get some physical activity.
Mr. K: There's a lot of overinvolvement these days, particularly in sports-I see it in the basketball that I coach. A lot of kids in the fall are doing three sports at once! At some practices, where there should be twelve kids on the team, only four show up! They say they have soccer, they have to go to football, etc. It's so disruptive, we can't really form a team. They are not fully accountable for being part of a team. The parents apparently did not make that a priority when they signed up.
BB: Do you think some of the parents didn't give any thought to the accountability because they too are crazy-busy?
Ms. K: Possibly. I don't think it's necessarily a conscious decision on their part, sometimes it's just an innocent by-product of busyness.
Mr. K: I hate to say it, but I also think in some cases there's an element of "My kid needs to be Superman, so I'm going to sign up for three things." It's almost as if being busy implies importance. Some parents are proud of how many activities their kids are doing, even if those same kids are missing half the practices of the teams they're on.
BB: Why do you think there is such an emphasis on quantity rather than quality?
Mr. K: (Pauses for a while) I think it can happen when there is no overall plan or goal in mind. Efforts end up being scattered, like throwing a bunch of things at the kids, and seeing what sticks. Sometimes the extreme busyness seems to build on itself, and then there's no time anymore for family relationships. This can cause strain on families, who then might react by becoming even busier.
BB: That's interesting to hear. In the past, I had some families in my studio who not only missed a lot of lessons for casual reasons, but also tended to be sick much more of the time than other families. This was a double-whammy on lesson attendance!
_________
On punctuality, reliability and commitment
BB: You folks are rarely if ever late for lessons, even though you drive over from a different community. How do you manage to always be on time?
Ms. K: There have been two or three instances where I haven't been on time, and I do apologize for that. (We all laugh)
Mr. K: I think that answers your question!
BB: That's like Michael Jordan apologizing for shooting only 94% from the foul line!
Ms. K: I feel like your time is valuable. You are a professional, and you have agreed to teach my children. I view us as fairly responsible people.
Mr. K: We do try to be diligent about being responsible. We really believe that being reliable is an important thing. The most important thing in the world is trust, and the only way you can gain trust is to be reliable. Showing up everyday is part of that. When someone trusts you, that's the ultimate compliment.
I'll never forget this story. Once I was at a very large gathering at the company I work for; there were probably about 500 people present, The CEO was asked, What one word would you like someone to associate with your name? He said, "This may not sound sexy, but I wish people would call me reliable."
That has stuck with me-just showing up and being reliable.
BB: How have you helped Daniel and Doug learn that?
Ms. K: By example. I don't think we actually have even talked much about it. They see it in how we conduct our own lives, and they catch on.
Mr. K: For instance, when it comes to anything important, we're not going to be late. The boys know that if we're leaving for church at 9:25 AM and they're not ready, we're leaving anyway. We also don't leave events until they're over. That's just a matter of respect; it's rude to be late or to leave early. The guys see this, and it teaches them to respect their own time and other people's as well.
BB: They come to every lesson with all of their materials, and ready to participate, so they learn more than the kid who walks in with flashcards dribbling down his leg and no assignment book. Also, when one lesson is over, I don't have to yell for the next to come in from the waiting room. They must be keeping track of the time on their own, and they make sure that when I'm ready for them - BOOM - they come in right away. Therefore, they learn more than the sibling who comes out from the waiting room two minutes later and says, "I have to go to the bathroom." (We laugh). Really - it happens!
And they're alert at every lesson, even when I sense a little tiredness. Despite their age, they strike me as young adults. I commend you as parents, because I know those behaviors are the by-product of everything you've been talking about.
Ms. K: That's good to hear. As parents, we don't really get to know what they're like with other people.
BB: As a teacher, they get to see the best of me, and I get to see the best of them. This is one of the transcendental aspects of teaching. I help others, and in the process, It helps me to become a better person. It still acknowledges the fact that we're human and have frailties. But in that piano lesson, hopefully, there's something special going on for both of us. Your children help me to become a better teacher!
Ms. K: I'm thinking back again to some of our earlier discussion about why we take our piano commitment so seriously. I think the teacher sets the tone. In reading your policies brochure after we first contacted you a few years ago, I immediately recognized what you expected of your students. You were not a college student looking to earn a little money with piano instruction-I'm exaggerating somewhat-you were a professional with incredible experience who took his commitment seriously and expected the same of his students.
In the past, we have had piano teachers who were extremely flexible with lessons. That made our lives easier in terms of resolving schedule conflicts, but I don't think it did much for our discipline. Frankly, you have our respect because you have asked for it and have backed up your request with extraordinary competence in your field. You were very clear from the beginning what your expectations were. We wouldn't have enrolled our children for lessons with you had we not agreed with your position.
BB: Thank you very much for sharing that, and I want to thank you both very much for taking the time to do this interview.
______
Ms. K worked as an auditor and human resources manager at a major accounting firm. She is also a CPA
Mr. K is a vice president for a major food corporation.
More of the interview with the S family
On the children being themselves yet, yet learning limits
BB: Your boys are normal kids - they're playful, they have a lot of energy, they're a bit mischievous at times in an innocent way. When you pull up for the lesson and you open up the car doors, they pile out of there in a ball of wrestling madness and rough-house on the lawn out front. Yet, when they enter the house, they're quiet and they go directly to the waiting room. When it's time for their lesson, each gets down to business immediately. During the lesson, they're alert and on-task almost all of the time, yet each shows his individual personality, whether it be playful or humorous or thoughtful or whatever. If one of them ever goes overboard in getting off-task, as soon as I point it out, they immediately come back on track. The result is the best of both worlds: a playful and imaginative child, yet with the behavior management skills of an adult. What role do you think you've played in this?
Ms. S: I don't think we can take credit for all of that. They each have their own personality. We goof around with them all the time, and let them know you can have fun. Sometimes we just tell them, "It's time to be serious", and I guess they just have picked up on that.
Mr. S: I also don't know if we can take credit for that, except we have told them at times, "You're not behaving a certain way for me right now, but I hope that if you were at a friend's house, you wouldn't act this way with other adults." It's a respect issue.
Ms. S: Maybe we've emphasized that there are lines you can't cross. We let them do the things they can do when it's not serious. We cut them a lot of slack.
Mr. S: If we cross the line in some way, we're accountable as well. For instance, the boys also love to rough-house with me, especially tickling. If I ever go overboard with them, they get mad at me! There's a clear line there they know is there. If I cross it, I say I'm sorry. We have to own up to things as well with our kids.
BB: That's interesting. I have seen Evan react to both sides of a situation. There was one lesson in which he started horsing around too much; when I pointed it out, I was surprised that this seven-year old boy immediately backed down-his voice and body language abruptly changed-and he politely and sincerely said, "I'm sorry." Conversely, there was a different lesson in which I fouled up something-I forgot to get to one of his favorite pieces or something like that. I told him I was sorry, and he immediately said, in a voice that was obviously meant to reassure me, "That's OK, that's alright." (laughs) He really was trying to make me feel better about the mistake I had made. I think he learned both sides of this from the two of you!
On the limitations of parents' role in helping
BB: It's not uncommon for kids to avoid doing what their same-sex parents does. Matt, you have three boys, and they know you're a professional musician, yet they all obviously want to do music.
Mr. S: Interestingly, Jake doesn't want to be a singer. He's made that very clear. But he likes music, as well as other things, such as animals and wildlife. With him, I have to take a hands-off approach. It's somewhat this way with all the kids. If they feel like I'm "instructing" them, not just in music but in anything, all I hear is, "I know, I know." They don't mind playing with me, but they don't want me to be their teacher. That was tough for me at first; I had to learn to take a step back.
Sometimes it's complicated. David might say to me, "Dad, I'm confused about something." I'll respond to his request for help, and yet he'll still get angry and quickly push me away. It's a touchy thing.
Ms. S: Some of it is that he gets frustrated, and tends to take it out on Matt. We're encouraging David to do more singing, because he has an amazing voice; he'll be joining a children's choir soon. He's been hesitant up to now, because he says he can't sing as well as his dad . . .
Mr. S: Which is not true. He has a beautiful boy-soprano voice
Ms. S: We tell him we would be happy if he sang better than dad! That's the cool thing about parents-they're happy if their kids are better than they are. So it's probably a good thing that Matt doesn't play the piano that much! I don't play either-they like the fact that they can do this thing better than we can.
BB: So maybe some children are intimidated by an activity if one of their parents is very good at it?
Mr. S: That might be the case. It could be somewhat intimidating.
Ms. S: It could also be the parents' encouraging them to do it, and then that sets up the child to rebel!
BB: But they're not rebelling against music here, so that's great.
Ms. S: I don't really know why they're interested in music, except for when they were little, we used to play music all the time-we always had a CD on. After we moved into this house a few years ago, we started doing that less.
BB: Don't they hear Matt practice?
Mr. S: I actually don't practice around them that much. When they were toddlers, if I would practice, they would cry! (laughs) "Daddy, stop!!". Hey, I'm a singer-I have a very fragile ego-I can't stand to hear that! (laughs a lot).
________
The study of piano versus other instruments
BB: Why have you prioritized piano over trumpet in Jake's studies?
Mr. S: Partially, he committed to the piano first. If he were to say that he wanted trumpet to be his main instrument, I wouldn't have a problem with that. He also plays around on a guitar.
Ms. S: He just picked up guitar this year, and taught himself some things. But we've told him, "Before you do guitar, practice piano."
Mr. S: I also think playing piano makes you a better musician. Trumpet is a melodic instrument, but piano is a harmonic instrument plus much more.
Jake noticed how much praise and positive feedback he was getting at school for playing the trumpet. But he knows, and has said so, that it's because of piano that he can do more things quickly on the trumpet. He already knew much about music in general. He also saw how it helped him teach himself some guitar. He told his brothers about all of this-how piano has made learning other instruments so much easier.
Another reason I want them to play piano is that I don't, at least not very well!
______
The role of the teacher in motivating practice
Ms. S: Going back to their practicing piano. It's not hard for us to get them to do it, because they really want to do well for you. They get worried if they haven't practiced. They're not concerned you're going to yell at them-it's not a fear thing-I think they're worried about disappointing you, because they know you have high expectations of them.
Mr. S: They definitely want to please you.
Ms. S: That makes our job easier. It's satisfying for them to see for themselves the progress they're making, but they also see their progress through your eyes.
Mr. S: Also, you're honest with them, however they're prepared. You've picked up on the differences of each one-on how to gently but honestly help each one. For instance, Jake really appreciates that he can't get by with sub-standard preparation. He has liked that the final level of mastery of each of his pieces has been high. In his earlier studies before you, there was the feeling that instead of gripping the road, that he was just hydroplaning all over the place!
Another thing that also helped motivate them was, at the end of the school year when you showed them how many levels of advancement each had progressed during that year, and how that rate of progress was well above the average in your studio. I heard one of them say, "Wow, maybe I can get a "4" next year." Interviewer's note: I assign numbers to advancement levels to help me track one aspect of students' progress. Each sub-level (for example, mid-elementary, early-intermediate, etc.) consists of three numbers for early levels, two numbers for more advanced levels. The median child in my studio achieves a 2-number increase each school year. In their first year in my studio, the Sucher boys achieved a 3, 3, and a 4.
Ms. S: By the way, sometimes when they're not fully prepared, they are probably smart enough that they can fake some of it! They have figured out what you want, so can at least get by if it's not been a great week.
BB: They'll do well on SATs!
Ms. S: They already do well on standardized tests.
Mr. S: When the guys are not at their best, it's usually a time management issue. After their lesson, on a bad week, there may be a few days that they don't practice. But they do practice many of the other days-they don't fall into that dieters' trap: "OK, I've had a cheeseburger, so I may as well have that cheesecake, too." That's why they can still accomplish something at the next lesson. Realistically, I think the reason why some kids can't come in on bad weeks and make a go of it at their lessons is that they haven't practiced even once during that whole week. I've seen this with some of my voice students.
______
More on being supportive and encouraging
BB: Are there other ways you've encouraged their involvement in music studies?
Ms. S: We don't take them to a lot of concerts, but we do make a conscious effort to introduce them to different styles of music-we listen to all kinds of music here.
Mr. S: I think one of the worst things you can do is judge music and say, "That's good music, and that's bad music." I have my opinions about what is better, but I encourage them to explore what they like.
Ms. S: They saw the movie "School of Rock" this past year and were really influenced by it. That's probably why there was suddenly more interest in guitars and drums. In our basement, we have an electric keyboard with a set of drums. They just play around on it most times. But sometimes we encourage them to bring their practice assignment downstairs and do it there on the other instrument. It's a fun change of venue.
BB: As I'm hearing all of this as you describe how you lead and support your children, I'm picturing an image: you're driving down a road where sometimes you press the gas pedal, then you back off, you wait and see how it goes. The guys know that you're there if they need you, but you give them a fair amount of leeway to try things out. You give them feedback when they need it, avoiding extremes in any area. Does this sound right?
Mr. S: Yes. Some of parenting skills has to do with when to press them, and when to ease up. And not just in piano. I think I've expressed to them that they can do themselves a disservice just by quitting something early- by giving up before giving it a fair chance.
_____________________
Punctuality and reliability/priorities
BB: I don't think you missed even one lesson this past year. I don't remember your ever being late either. That's not the case with all my families. What are you doing differently?
Mr. S: You know the quotation: "Half of the gig is just showing up." (laughs) I've always had a thing about being punctual. I don't get crazy about it, but it bothers me to be late. I had a choir director in high school-if you were late, it was half a letter grade reduction. I was always told by several people: If you're a musician and you're late, you won't get the gig the next time. And I was taught by my mom that it's just plain rude to be late-that would say that my time is more important than your time.
Ms. S: Right.
Mr. S: As far as cancelling, I guess I'm just cheap! (laughs).
Ms. S: That's true. If not for the money, there might have been a few times we would have cancelled.
BB: Matt, as a voice teacher, and Jennifer, as an attorney, you know the usual list of things that cause some people to cancel lessons and appointments for casual reasons. Life is happening for you folks, too. How have you been able to not let those things affect your attendance at piano lessons?
Mr. S: It just shows our priorities. We're telling our kids through our actions that this is a priority.
Ms. S: I also don't remember any time in particular when we had a real scheduling conflict. Thursdays are a very good day in our schedule
Mr. S: Right, and there's more to it. The kids like going to their lesson, and they like the routine, so we don't run into any resistance. Anyway, it's not an option-it's a level of commitment we have.
Ms. S: I think we have a really good fit; you and us-the teacher and the parents-we all take the lessons seriously.
Mr. S: That type of fit is important. And there's also a personality fit. If that's not there, it doesn't necessarily mean the teaching is bad, then it just doesn't click. I think you've done a great job of making it click with our guys.
Ms. S: Our guys may not be your most serious students . . .
BB: I don't have any other students who are more consistently prepared than your guys. And in music, as you know, consistency over time makes a big difference. It's like compound interest accruing. Small amounts grow to huge things over time.
_____________
How they chose their teacher
BB: You told me that before your guys studied with me, that you had already interviewed two other teachers whom you chose not to use. What motivated your decision?
Mr. S: It was mainly how they presented themselves and the subject matter. One teacher seemed blasé about what method series and materials might be used.
Ms. S: That person was also non-committal about most other things as well.
Mr. S: Another person spent much of the interview time trying to impress us with who had been this person's teacher, and who that teacher had studied with-basically, the pedagogical "pedigree." I don't place a lot of credence in that. There were a lot of other things mentioned that didn't really relate to teaching.
Ms. S: When we got your brochure and other written material in the mail, at first we thought maybe this was too heavy-duty than what we were looking for. We realized that if we went with you, this was going to be a commitment. So our initial feeling was, let's try it and see how it goes-see how the kids respond. When we saw it working, our level of commitment adjusted slightly to match yours.
BB: I want to thank both of you for taking the time to do this interview.
__________
Ms. S works as an attorney for a large company.
Mr. S teaches private voice and is a freelance singer.
More thoughts on the role of parents and families in the educational success of children
It has always amazed me that when I am working on a large project on a particular topic, manifestations of that topic seem to find their way to my doorstep! As I have worked on these interviews during the past several months, I have read some pertinent ideas on this topic. I would like to use the luxury of the virtually unlimited space of this website to share these with you.
Thoughts on this topic from a high school Spanish teacher in Pennsylvania:
A few years ago, I re-established contact with one of the best teachers I had in my pre-college education, Ernesto Canales. He taught Spanish in the same Pennsylvania public school district for thirty-three years. He was an excellent demanding teacher, who knew how to combine drill, application, and literature in a way that held students' interest. During the three years I studied with him, he always projected himself in a dignified yet approachable way, and this helped create a classroom spirit that encouraged hard work and participation. He introduced his students to far more than the language and the culture from which the language arose. For instance, when looking at the art work of Pablo Picasso, we not only learned about the history of Spain and of these works, but he also taught us something about how to look at any painting-an appreciation of line, movement, balance, color, expression. We also periodically sang many songs in class from different parts of the Spanish-speaking world. It took great courage, I think, to have done all of this in a community that was partially comprised of many lower-middle class families, and whose values were more blue-collar oriented (I'm not sure any of us had even heard of Picasso before those classes, let alone seen one). He did all of it unflinchingly well, and my interest and love of the Spanish language and culture have been with me for a lifetime.
In a letter he wrote to me last year, he shared some perspectives from having been a public school teacher over several decades. I found the following part of his letter highly relevant to the topic of these interviews (permission has been granted by the writer to share these with you).
by Ernesto Canales:
"In 1985, I retired. The pleasure and satisfaction I had enjoyed for so long were gradually eroding. All across the country, family life was disintegrating and I no longer felt the closeness I had enjoyed previously with the parents of many of my children.
With more and more mothers joining the work force (for a variety of reasons) it became almost impossible to contact anyone at home during the day. More and more "latch-key" kids had to fend for themselves for most of the day. With the lack of parental control and guidance, many of our students began to falter and fall behind scholastically.
Parents, as we all know, are the first and the most influential teachers. They are also the most important role models for their children.
Much as it sometimes irritates them, children know that the constant contact and cooperation between parents and teachers provide them with a positive scholastic and social environment that gives security, direction, and a sense of purpose.
Like most of us, children want to achieve their goals, and to be commended and praised for their efforts. No one can do it better than parents and teachers together.
I've contacted some of my colleagues who are still teaching. They are sensing a growing return to 'the old days' of positive parental involvement in their children's educational and social development. May it continue, and may it also stem the tide of resignations of young teachers after two or three years of 'diminishing returns.' If not, who's going to be teaching the nation's children in a few years?"
Thoughts on this topic from a piano and organ dealer in Indiana:
A few times each year, I and other piano teachers in Chicagoland receive a mailing from Hal Morris Piano & Organ Co. of Highland, IN (www.halmorrispianos.com). Although the contents of the mailing are partially commercial in nature, there is always also a letter or an essay written by Scott Morris, the owner of the store; his father started the business fifty-five years ago. In a recent mailing, Mr. Morris included an essay called "A Note of Congratulations to Parents" in which he not only extols the virtues of owning a piano and studying music, but also addresses the issues of parental responsibility and leadership. He was motivated to write this essay after hearing many teachers talk about their growing frustration with the level of commitment of their students and families. He gives a copy of the essay to anyone who comes into his store to look for an instrument for their children, regardless of whether they make a purchase or not.
Here are a few paragraphs from the essay (permission has been granted by the writer to share these with you). In it, you will echoes of some of the things that were said in slightly different ways by the K family, the S family, and Ms. W in these past two issues
by Scott Morris:
"It is true that at different times the musical student will want to quit for awhile. If you make this optional, the chances of them wanting to quit will dramatically rise. There are points during the educational process that can be a little challenging and even difficult, but please don't let those instances keep you from going on. If you do you will be sacrificing the one thing that might bring your children the most happiness in life in terms of things they like to do. It is a little like learning to read. It is a little difficult, especially in the beginning, but once you learn how your whole life is dramatically changed for the better. When your children suggest that they would like to give up, there is one phrase that I would like for you to think about and that is this: did I give them a choice as to whether they wanted to read or not? Shouldn't I show the same kind of supportiveness concerning their musical education as well?
After talking to a hundred parents and dozens of teachers, I realize that the parents are the biggest predictors of success concerning a child's education musically. If parents allow the children to change course whenever they want, the children will not stick with it. However, if parents really perceive the benefit and are enthusiastically supportive of their children's continued success, that child will be destined to succeed. I often hear people say we don't know if Johnny or Susie is going to stick with it. And I think to myself, how can Johnny or Susie possibly stick to it when the parents show absolutely no resolve on their part?
Behind every good student in school
is a caring supportive parent. The same can be said about a student
taking music instruction as well."
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